Update: Deacon Greg offers a link to an update on this situation. The priest in this story has been suspended.
The suspension was effective immediately, Superior diocese spokesman Richard Lyons said.-ConcordPastor
"He is to step down from active ministry and any involvement in church events until we have a chance to clarify the information that was in the New York Times article today," Lyons said.
(complete story)
...maybe I shouldn't have read that...
ReplyDelete...and maybe I shouldn't be commenting...
but, I have to try to release some of my feelings... and I'm not even sure what all of my feelings are exactly- I'm very confused- angry, sad...
Both the priest and the woman were wrong.
The way I read this, it seemed like the woman (and the women) were being shown as victims. I do not agree. I think they were equally as wrong. This was not "abuse" (unwanted sex)-
the women knew what they were doing and willingly did it.
I'm still so confused :(
Actually, this IS a case of abuse, abuse of position and authority. Listen to/read the comments of the woman in the story and how she felt when the priest approached her. He is responsible for understanding how his position and authority in the situation influence other people and their response to him. He was approaching a woman who had, in trust, already made herself vulnerable to him as a client for counseling and spiritual assistance. He took advantage of that vulnerability and that is abuse.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your honest and up front approach to this --and other--sad, situations--It is most appreciated--Now if we can only get you into a position of MORE influence in the Church
ReplyDelete...I understand that and agree with that...
ReplyDelete(I guess I was thinking of abuse differently or something)
and I was not excusing the priest in any way...
but, aren't the women wrong also?
(I'm sorry for questioning- this is just very intense and confusing, I guess...)
...I guess it just somehow feels different...
ReplyDeleteum, I don't know why I feel so confused-
I keep thinking of personal experiences and comparing them-
it's just confusing-
Again, I AM NOT EXCUSING the priest AT ALL and I do agree that it was an abuse of power...
The culpability of the priest in such a situation is clear and the woman in these circumstances is clearly a victim of abuse. It's much more difficult, perhaps impossible, to determine what degree of culpability, if any, can be assigned to the victim.
ReplyDelete...thank you for your responses...
ReplyDelete(I think I should have gone with my initial instinct- to not comment- only because I feel too emotionally confused and overwhelmed- and now I feel that my comments were not clear- that others would think I didn't see or read how I should have... )
well, thank you.
I thought your comments (on a topic emotionally charged for everyone) were clear and it seems to me that you did understand both the post and responses.
ReplyDeleteConcord Pastor, What do you think of a (hypothetical) case of a woman in a difficult situation who went to a priest who misrepresented the teachings of the Church to her? Who gave her spiritual guidance that was misguided or even led her to act or believe something wrong? Would you consider that spiritual abuse? Just wondering...
ReplyDeleteIrish Gal
IG: A priest who deliberately misrepresented the teachings of the Church to someone seeking his spiritual guidance would be seriously wrong in doing so.
ReplyDeleteIt is not abuse if the woman and the man, (the priest), truly fall in love.
ReplyDeleteIt is HUMAN. Something the priesthood fails to recognize.
Very sad. Unfortunately this type of thing happens, too often, in many occupations and professions.
ReplyDeleteShawn: when the "relationship" begins in abuse it's virtually impossible that it develop into a healthy love relationship. Abuse of another human being is certainly less than human, less than humane, less than loving. If anything, celibacy is very much meant to recognize and reverence the human love of a man and woman in marriage and yet, at the same time, to forsake it for another love.
ReplyDeleteI've been visiting this blog for awhile now, and know it's near impossible to persuade you to think differently; so that's not what I'm trying to do. I speak from personal experience. A family member was a priest years ago, fell in love with a woman he counseled, left the priesthood and eventually married her. There was enormous guilt, hurt and pain involved; but never was it described or talked about in the term "abuse".
ReplyDeleteShawn: Each case, of course, is different. In this venue we can only respond to what information is available. (And that is not a request for more information about your family member.) Clearly the relationship you describe includes a history different in many ways from the one outlined in the NYT article. Still, there was "enormous guilt, hurt and pain involved."
ReplyDeleteI am not trying to paint all cases with one brush - it's often difficult to respond in the comboxes here and impossible to respond in ways that attend to comments which have, by the nature of the venue, little context. It's for this reason that I continually ponder the possibility of simply shutting off the comment feature.
Some women who go to a priest for counseling, are very vulnerable and emotionally distraught. It's easy to fall in love with the person who is comforting you. Most times, it can only bring hurt and pain to the woman ... as in the case of this woman in the post. It's a priests responsibility to back away if he sees this happening. Abuse is a loaded word that triggers emotional responses from different people. I'm not so sure I'd call it abuse. I'd call it taking advantage of a woman when she's vulnerable and not being responsible in your role as a priest. Of course, there are cases such as Shawns ... when the priest leaves ... and it works out for the best.
ReplyDeleteI too know of a situation where a priest has been emotionally and physically involved with a close woman friend of mine for the past 30 plus years. Both of these people are highly intelligent, open and warm individuals who happened to fall in love...he has considered leaving the priesthood so she tells me, but never has taken actual steps to do so...she, a widow, has waited very patiently for him to do so but it has never happened.
ReplyDeleteHow will this story end? I have no idea, but I doubt that this situation will change.
I wish the official Church would wake up and realize that this whole notion of a celibate priesthood unless it is completely voluntary and not mandated by edict or tradition goes very much against human nature.
There has been such an incredible loss to the Church of highly spiritual gifted men and women over the centuries..it makes me very sad. I do not see the Church changing its position on celibacy in my lifetime and I can only pray that the Church will not completely implode in the next century. However, I do have faith on Christ's words to Peter
"And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and the powers of death shall not prevail against it."
Matther 16:18
The vow of celibacy is completely voluntary. No one puts a gun to the head of any man seeking ordination! What this priest has done is violate his sacred vow, in much the same way a married man having an affair violates a sacred vow. As for those who enter into relationships with priests, I can only think of what Dear Abby would tell them.
ReplyDeleteIrish Gal
Thank you for posting this, CP. It is good that we do not hide from these "tragic chapters."
ReplyDeleteI will certainly remember all of these people, as well as the OFMs and the members of that parish, in my prayers -- many prayers.
CP, I think it's good that you have comments. It's not a perfect venue for dialogue but it's helpful. (The only other way to go might be the Andrew Sullivan model -- to not have comments but frequently post the best of your reader e-mails.)
RE the subject matter here, I think the OFMs of the Sacred Heart Province need to articulate their policies (then and now) on how they handle these kinds of situations. I also think they need to fire any lawyers who encourage them to seek confidentiality agreements. If they are going to return priests like this to ministry, it need to be in the light of day.
When I first read this story I found it so troubling I couldn't comment on it. Somehow I cannot seem to get it out of my mind.
ReplyDeleteA few days ago I finished reading Irish Dreamers - Celtic Tales that Stir the Heart, a collection of short stories by a priest named William John Fitzgerald. In one of the stories "Blocked" he tells the following:
"The Celts call a soul friend, an anam cara - a human being who knows you at the deep level of soul or spirit. An anam cara can sometimes speak the truth to the deepest layers of the soul and enable you to deal with both the light and the dark."
I thought of this in connection with the woman who reached out to this priest.
Then yesterday in mass as we were singing "The Servant Song," I thought of this woman again and how the words seemed so appropriate to what she had been looking for initially. "I will hold the Christ-light for you in the night-time of your fear."
I think that whenever someone who is in psychic pain reaches out to another for help, whether they know it or not, they want to find an anam cara, someone to hold the Christ-light for them, to see them through the dark time they are going through.
I wish so very much that this priest had been an anam cara, a Christ-light for this woman.
Rosemary
Well, thanks to the power of the press, it appears the priest was suspended on Friday.
ReplyDeleteSeems money--and or-the press is what gets the attention of the church----We must remember it is the human element of the church that causes such grief---The depth and beauty of the spritual must not be denied.
If a priest learns that another priest is involved in an illicit relationship -- especially one in which there is a disparity of power (the victim is a student or a person in counseling) -- what is he required to do in the archdiocese?
ReplyDeleteIrish Gal
IG: He would be responsible for reporting that to the archdiocese.
ReplyDeleteCP,
ReplyDeleteI also hope you will continue to keep the comment boxes open. We need dialogue and can learn so much from each other's life experience and inspiration (from the Spirit).
And to Rosemary, thank you for your reflections on "anam cara" or soul friend and the Servant Song, being the Christ-light. Beautiful, healing words!